# Between Two Nerds: Why NATO and cyber don't mix

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/risky-bulletin-5423259/between-two-nerds-why-nato-and-cyber-don-t-mix
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/risky-bulletin-5423259/between-two-nerds-why-nato-and-cyber-don-t-mix.md
Podcast: [Risky Bulletin](https://stenobird.com/podcast/risky-bulletin-5423259)
Published: 2026-06-15T21:06:51+00:00
Episode link: https://risky.biz/BTN170/
Audio file: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/media3.risky.biz/BTN170.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/risky-bulletin-5423259/episodes/between-two-nerds-why-nato-and-cyber-don-t-mix
Duration seconds: 1717

## Resource

In this edition of Between Two Nerds Tom Uren and The Grugq talk about how NATO is set up to deter conventional conflict, and how that approach is fundamentally unsuited for ongoing, everyday cyber operations that are intended to confound adversaries. This episode is also available on YouTube.

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## Transcript

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