# Rick Heitzmann: The Gray-Area Deals Funding the AI Buildout

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/riskreversal-pod-1366742/rick-heitzmann-the-gray-area-deals-funding-the-ai-buildout
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/riskreversal-pod-1366742/rick-heitzmann-the-gray-area-deals-funding-the-ai-buildout.md
Podcast: [RiskReversal Pod](https://stenobird.com/podcast/riskreversal-pod-1366742)
Published: 2026-07-23T09:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/RRM6452762301.mp3
Audio file: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/RRM6452762301.mp3
Processing state: not_requested
JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/riskreversal-pod-1366742/episodes/rick-heitzmann-the-gray-area-deals-funding-the-ai-buildout
Duration seconds: 2019

## Resource

Dan Nathan sits down with Rick Heitzmann, co-founder and partner at FirstMark Capital, to kick off a new Okay, Computer. series on AI investing. They dig into the circular financing behind the AI infrastructure boom — from Nvidia backstopping Apollo's private credit for xAI to Meta's off-balance-sheet data center deals with KKR and Blue Owl — plus the shift from "tokenmaxxing" to an efficiency era, the rise of Chinese open-source models, memory stock froth, and what's next for the IPO market after SpaceX. Show Notes Big Tech Is Hiding $1.65 Trillion in Debt. How Worried Should Investors Be? (Yahoo Finance) SpaceXAI Explores Major Data Center Expansion in Texas (The Information) —FOLLOW USYouTube: @RiskReversalMediaInstagram: @riskreversalmediaTwitter: @RiskReversalLinkedIn: RiskReversal Media The financial opinions expressed in Risk Reversal content are for information purposes only. The opinions expressed by the hosts and participants are not an attempt to influence specific trading behavior, investments, or strategies. Past performance does not necessarily predict future outcomes. No specific results or profits are assured when relying on Risk Reversal. Before making any investment or trade, evaluate its suitability for your circumstances and consider consulting your own financial or investment advisor. The financial products discussed in Risk Reversal carry a high level of risk and may not be appropriate for many investors. If you have uncertainties, it's advisable to seek professional advice. Remember that trading involves a risk to your capital, so only invest money that you can afford to lose. Derivatives are not suitable for all investors and involve the risk of losing more than the amount originally deposited and any profit you might have made. This communicati…

## Actions

- request_transcript: `POST https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/riskreversal-pod-1366742/episodes/rick-heitzmann-the-gray-area-deals-funding-the-ai-buildout/transcription-requests` — Idempotently request low-priority transcript generation for this episode.
- read_markdown: `GET https://stenobird.com/podcast/riskreversal-pod-1366742/rick-heitzmann-the-gray-area-deals-funding-the-ai-buildout.md` — Read the agent-friendly Markdown representation of this episode resource.

A page view does not enqueue transcription. Agents should invoke `request_transcript` explicitly when they need this episode processed.

## Transcript

Full transcripts are not published on public pages unless there is a clear rights basis.