# How to Build Product Development Teams 🛠️ — with Rob Zuber

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/refactoring-podcast-7057405/how-to-build-product-development-teams-with-rob-zuber
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/refactoring-podcast-7057405/how-to-build-product-development-teams-with-rob-zuber.md
Podcast: [Refactoring Podcast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/refactoring-podcast-7057405)
Published: 2025-11-22T08:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://www.spreaker.com/episode/how-to-build-product-development-teams-with-rob-zuber--68691775
Audio file: https://api.spreaker.com/download/episode/68691775/412942402_44100_2_e2e74fe2dc47.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/refactoring-podcast-7057405/episodes/how-to-build-product-development-teams-with-rob-zuber
Duration seconds: 4153

## Resource

Today's guest is Rob Zuber, CTO of CircleCI!With Rob, we talked about software delivery, the impact of AI, and how to build great product engineering teams. And next, we discuss trade-offs between standardization versus flexibility in software organizations, and lessons learned from our respective past mistakes.(00:00) Preview(01:22) Introduction(03:33) Industry Changes and AI's Impact on Development(08:59) The Bell Curve of Metrics and Team Performance(12:09) From Engineering Metrics to Business Outcomes(14:31) Building Effective Small Teams(25:35) Experience vs. Curiosity(37:18) Scaling Challenges and Technology Decisions(49:26) Organizational Standards and Leadership Philosophy—This episode is brought to you by Codacy! Codacy helps developers save time in code reviews, so developers can focus on other things.Start your free trial and get 20% off your first 3 months at codacy.com/refactoring—You can also find this at:• 📬 Newsletter: https://refactoring.fm• 🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7Luds9dmzZDoDC8Q7EMbSw• 📱 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/refactoring-podcast/id1719137305—For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, or appearing as a guest, email: luca@refactoring.club

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## Transcript

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