# Elise Loehnen & Courtney Smith

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/reclaiming-with-monica-lewinsky-7190769/elise-loehnen-courtney-smith
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/reclaiming-with-monica-lewinsky-7190769/elise-loehnen-courtney-smith.md
Podcast: [Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky](https://stenobird.com/podcast/reclaiming-with-monica-lewinsky-7190769)
Published: 2026-01-06T08:01:00+00:00
Episode link: https://clrtpod.com/m/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.megaphone.fm/ADL6231086914.mp3?updated=1779186405
Audio file: https://clrtpod.com/m/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.megaphone.fm/ADL6231086914.mp3?updated=1779186405
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/reclaiming-with-monica-lewinsky-7190769/episodes/elise-loehnen-courtney-smith
Duration seconds: 5032

## Resource

This week on Reclaiming, Monica sits down with author Elise Loehnen and coach Courtney Smith for a conversation about goodness, desire, and the new "workbook" they co-authored "Choosing Wholeness Over Goodness" . Elise reflects on the ideas behind her other book “On Our Best Behavior” and the cultural pressure for women to be selfless, disciplined, and “good,” while Courtney explains how those inherited beliefs settle into the body and quietly steer our choices. Together they explore Enneagram types and how understanding our dominant type and wing can illuminate the fears driving our behavior, the drama triangle and the roles we slip into without noticing, and the surprising insight within envy and wanting. They talk about the fear of losing approval when we step out of line, the shame that gathers around desire, and the courage it takes to name what we truly need. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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## Transcript

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