# Transparency, Auditing, and the PBM Shell Game | PBM Reform Podcast

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/pharmacy-podcast-network-945715/transparency-auditing-and-the-pbm-shell-game-pbm-reform-podcast
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/pharmacy-podcast-network-945715/transparency-auditing-and-the-pbm-shell-game-pbm-reform-podcast.md
Podcast: [Pharmacy Podcast Network](https://stenobird.com/podcast/pharmacy-podcast-network-945715)
Published: 2026-06-02T12:06:43+00:00
Episode link: https://pharmacypodcastnetwork.podbean.com/e/greg-reybold-josh-golden-on-pbm-reform-pbm-reform/
Audio file: https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/yn4daxhthfsgj9sk/PBMReform_JoshGold.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/pharmacy-podcast-network-945715/episodes/transparency-auditing-and-the-pbm-shell-game-pbm-reform-podcast
Duration seconds: 2899

## Resource

In this episode of the PBM Reform Podcast, host Greg Reybold, Vice President and General Counsel at APCI, welcomes Josh Golden, Senior Vice President of Strategy at Judi Health and a nationally recognized voice in Pharmacy Benefit Manager reform. With more than 20 years of healthcare consulting experience, Golden brings deep expertise in vendor procurement, contract negotiation, plan design, and benefit strategy for large employers, government entities, and unions. Together, Reybold and Golden examine the financial models behind today’s PBM industry and why true transparency remains so difficult for employers, plan sponsors, patients, and pharmacies. The conversation explores how current PBM arrangements often benefit the PBMs more than the employers paying for coverage or the patients relying on their prescription benefits. Golden explains why auditing PBM contracts, rebate structures, spread pricing, administrative fees, pharmacy networks, and formulary decisions is essential to understanding the real economics of prescription drug benefits. This episode also addresses a growing concern in healthcare: PBM steering behavior. Are patients being quietly pushed toward specific formularies, specific pharmacies, and restricted networks that operate like closed networks without being clearly disclosed? Reybold and Golden discuss how this behavior can limit patient choice, disadvantage independent pharmacies, and distort the stated goal of lowering drug costs. The discussion also tackles the role of federal reform efforts, including whether the Appropriations Act represents meaningful PBM accountability or whether it risks becoming another layer in the broader shell game surrounding PBM reform. Finally, the episode asks one of the most important questions in pharmacy policy…

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## Transcript

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