# What Does It Really Mean to ‘Make It’ As a Writer? On Leaving Corporate Publishing, Becoming a Hack, and Deciding to Self-Publish

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/otherppl-with-brad-listi-841228/what-does-it-really-mean-to-make-it-as-a-writer-on-leaving-corporate-publishing-becoming-a-hack-and-deciding-to-self-publish
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/otherppl-with-brad-listi-841228/what-does-it-really-mean-to-make-it-as-a-writer-on-leaving-corporate-publishing-becoming-a-hack-and-deciding-to-self-publish.md
Podcast: [Otherppl with Brad Listi](https://stenobird.com/podcast/otherppl-with-brad-listi-841228)
Published: 2026-05-07T08:08:00+00:00
Episode link: https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/tracking.swap.fm/track/tcQd6Q6C0RUUlOHq1Ytj/mgln.ai/e/51/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.megaphone.fm/TPG1735950244.mp3?updated=1778116869
Audio file: https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/tracking.swap.fm/track/tcQd6Q6C0RUUlOHq1Ytj/mgln.ai/e/51/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.megaphone.fm/TPG1735950244.mp3?updated=1778116869
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Duration seconds: 5088

## Resource

Mira is out sick again this week, so instead of a new episode of Brad & Mira for the Culture, I am instead joined by Chris Stuck, who came to my attention recently when he published a very provocative and unusually candid essay on the online literary magazine Zona Motel. The essay is called ‘Chasing Wild Geese Through the Corporate Book World, or How I Became a Hack and Stated Self-Publishing My Fiction.' Stuck is the author of Give My Love to the Savages, a debut story collection published in July 2021 by Amistad/HarperCollins. He was a finalist for the PEN/Robert W. Bingham Prize and the Oregon Book Award, and is a Pushcart Prize winner. His next story collection is called Baby, This is a High-Priced Country, and it will be the first title published on Chris’s very own imprint, called Black Heroics Books. *** ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Otherppl with Brad Listi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a weekly podcast featuring in-depth interviews with today's leading writers. Available where podcasts are available: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, etc. Get ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠How to Write a Novel,⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ the debut audio course from DeepDive. 50+ hours of never-before-heard insight, inspiration, and instruction from dozens of today's most celebrated contemporary authors. Subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Brad's email newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Support the show on…

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