# E188: Building (And Spinning Out) Open Source Projects With Informal Systems

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/open-source-startup-podcast/e188-building-and-spinning-out-open-source-projects-with-informal-systems
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/open-source-startup-podcast/e188-building-and-spinning-out-open-source-projects-with-informal-systems.md
Podcast: [Open Source Startup Podcast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/open-source-startup-podcast)
Published: 2026-01-09T23:57:26+00:00
Episode link: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/ossstartuppodcast/episodes/E188-Building-And-Spinning-Out-Open-Source-Projects-With-Informal-Systems-e3deauv
Audio file: https://anchor.fm/s/3eab794c/podcast/play/113764767/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2026-0-9%2Fe6f568cb-0e81-3671-cc4b-aa22de133d99.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/open-source-startup-podcast/episodes/e188-building-and-spinning-out-open-source-projects-with-informal-systems
Duration seconds: 2268

## Resource

In our latest episode, co-hosts Robby and Tim talk with Zarko Milosevic (CTO) & Arianne Flemming (COO) of Informal Systems . They've built a protocol design & cross-chain infrastructure platform to foster trust in software and money. This episode explores how open source infrastructure and security drive company-building in high-stakes financial software. Using Malachite - a consensus engine built for a customer and later acquired by Circle - as an example, the conversation highlights how verifiability and reliability are core to the team’s approach. Informal operates in a unique way. They have core products and ones that are spun out. Projects emerge organically from real user needs and are either kept in the core or spun out as independent companies, often as open source software with services. With a worker-owned structure and roots in crypto, the organization focuses on building trustworthy financial and software infrastructure while staying flexible through spin-outs and acquisitions.

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## Transcript

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