# Debating the “Palestine Laboratory”

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/on-the-nose-4035786/debating-the-palestine-laboratory
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/on-the-nose-4035786/debating-the-palestine-laboratory.md
Podcast: [On the Nose](https://stenobird.com/podcast/on-the-nose-4035786)
Published: 2025-12-04T13:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://jewishcurrents.org/debating-the-palestine-laboratory
Audio file: https://episodes.captivate.fm/episode/3b0b8141-7b6d-4bca-af3c-989cb811d301.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/on-the-nose-4035786/episodes/debating-the-palestine-laboratory
Duration seconds: 2565

## Resource

In spring 2023, journalist and filmmaker Antony Loewenstein published The Palestine Laboratory , a book tracing the way that Israeli military technology and weaponry, battle-tested on Palestinians, is exported around the world. Lowenstein argues that as Israel’s surveillance and combat technologies are sold far and wide, we can expect to see the forms of violence carried out in Gaza, for example, appear elsewhere in the world. Last month, Jewish Currents published an article by Rhys Machold called “ The Myth of Israeli Innovation ,” which takes a critical look at what Machold has termed “the laboratory thesis” and examines how it obscures Israel’s dependence on powerful allies, while doing PR for the overhyped Israeli tech sector. On this episode of On the Nose , Jewish Currents editor-in-chief Arielle Angel hosts Loewenstein and Machold for a comradely debate about the “laboratory thesis” and whether it serves a narrative of Zionist exceptionalism. The guests discuss how advanced Israeli weapons really are; how “Israeli” they are, given the role of Western governments and corporations in their development; and how much of Israel’s “innovation” should be considered technological as opposed to political. They also explore whether or not Israel is on the verge of collapse, and how to characterize the balance of power between Israel and the US. Thanks to Jesse Brenneman for producing and to Nathan Salsburg for the use of his song “VIII (All That Were Calculated Have Passed).” Articles and Media Mentioned and Further Reading The Palestine Laboratory by Antony Loewenstein The Palestine Laboratory , documentary series by Antony Loewenstein on Al Jazeera “ The Myth of Israeli Innovation ,” Rhys Machold, Jewish Currents “ Reconsidering the laboratory thesis: Palestine/Israel a…

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## Transcript

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