# The Why of War and the How of Peace, Part I: Lessons from the Modern World ~ Douglas P. Fry

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/on-humans-5714769/the-why-of-war-and-the-how-of-peace-part-i-lessons-from-the-modern-world-douglas-p-fry
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/on-humans-5714769/the-why-of-war-and-the-how-of-peace-part-i-lessons-from-the-modern-world-douglas-p-fry.md
Podcast: [On Humans](https://stenobird.com/podcast/on-humans-5714769)
Published: 2026-06-19T11:54:15+00:00
Episode link: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/ilari-makela/episodes/The-Why-of-War-and-the-How-of-Peace--Part-I-Lessons-from-the-Modern-World--Douglas-P--Fry-e3l0jdu
Audio file: https://anchor.fm/s/b6269808/podcast/play/121703294/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2026-5-19%2Ff35606a1-4ea6-0faa-6f88-07ac27f2f56d.mp3
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Duration seconds: 2850

## Resource

History is full of wars. Why? Is war driven by fear? Greed? Revenge? Ambitious leaders? Is it rooted deep in human nature—or does it emerge only under particular social conditions? And what do we learn if we change the angle from wars to non-wars? What lessons emerge from a study of all the periods and regions where war did not take place? My guest in this two-part mini-series is Douglas P. Fry, an anthropologist who has spent decades studying these questions. He is also a returning guest, and one of the first scholars ever to appear on this podcast. In Part II of our conversation, we will return to the topic of our episode from years back: the origins of war in prehistory. In this first part, however, we take a very different approach. We discuss lessons from modernity, with our topics ranging from the quest for peace after WWII to the societies in the Brazilian Amazon and Indigenous North America. What makes former enemies trust one another? What roles are played by equality, trade, or a new shared enemy? And how can cycles of fear, retaliation, and revenge be reversed without simply surrendering to aggression? At a time when war once again dominates the news, these questions could hardly be more urgent. But they also point towards a part of the human story that is too easily forgotten: our capacity not only to make war, but to understand it—and to build peace that lasts. Enjoy! FACT-CHECKING My wording on Ukraine giving up its nuclear arsenal in exchange for "security guarantees" is slightly stronger than the formal language of the Budapest Memorandum, which talked of “security assurances” rather than legally binding security guarantees. If you notice a factual error in this conversation, please get in touch via Substack or the form below. LINKS Fry's 2026…

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