# 23: Shipping Violently w/ Justin Moon

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/no-solutions-7206062/23-shipping-violently-w-justin-moon
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/no-solutions-7206062/23-shipping-violently-w-justin-moon.md
Podcast: [No Solutions](https://stenobird.com/podcast/no-solutions-7206062)
Published: 2026-04-13T18:29:09+00:00
Episode link: https://njump.to/nevent1qqs2xwlnrgw7q0ptx5czxzljv9mfcx3mery2w95py73xt89pfmxdd6qpp4mhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mqzyzdauss5j8e745dvyx736qtx024egl6vr39wmpmzfnezwwcxegzjklher3y
Audio file: https://haven.dergigi.com/dfa15dfd1d65bb0a48aa91fa8f19a6ff905a18c4daecb913c61ae34b6952b7bf.m4a
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/no-solutions-7206062/episodes/23-shipping-violently-w-justin-moon
Duration seconds: 6013

## Resource

“I want to optimize for hackability and customization.” Justin Moon & Gigi take a walk in Madeira. Recorded during SEC-07 . Listen on sovereignengineering.io In this dialogue: Justin’s new obsession: building Shadow, a hackable mobile operating system for people who want full control over the stack Why Android is interesting again: not because it’s clean, but because it is at least open enough to fight with Android file chaos, and the immortal “file saved successfully” meme One wallet, one relay connection, one shared set of primitives at the OS level, instead of every app reinventing the same mess The “UNIX tools of Nostr” idea, revisited from #07: Zig Multiplatform w/ Justin Booting a phone with less Android, then turning Android off piece by piece once the system is running Early signs of life for Shadow: Kosti successfully compiled and ran it From 13-second button clicks to instant GPU rendering, and why that counts as real progress Ricing phones like Linux desktops, with the usual Typecraft explainer and awesome-ricing rabbit hole Why Justin chose TypeScript apps on top of a Rust core: make the parts you should not vibe-code solid, and let users vibe-code the rest Apps as source code, almost like DMs, instead of a permissioned app store pipeline How maps, notebooks, and everything else dematerialized into the computer, via this video of stuff disappearing into software The app store tax, DUNS numbers, LLC theater, and why Justin would rather build a parallel thing than beg Apple and Google for approval Permissionless alternatives at every layer: phone OS, payments, relays, networking, app distribution, and compute GrapheneOS as the security-maximalist trade-off, versus Shadow as the hackability-maximalist trade-off “I want a 3D printed gun of phones” as Justin…

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## Transcript

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