# Inside the Payer Files: How Third Horizon Is Exposing What Insurance Companies Really Pay with Greg Williams

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/mastermined-a-behavioral-mental-health-podcast-7348207/inside-the-payer-files-how-third-horizon-is-exposing-what-insurance-companies-really-pay-with-greg-williams
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/mastermined-a-behavioral-mental-health-podcast-7348207/inside-the-payer-files-how-third-horizon-is-exposing-what-insurance-companies-really-pay-with-greg-williams.md
Podcast: [MasterMined: A Behavioral & Mental Health Podcast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/mastermined-a-behavioral-mental-health-podcast-7348207)
Published: 2026-07-21T10:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://7b85b8b9-e12c-419f-86e6-b1da2ff0426b.libsyn.com/inside-the-payer-files-how-third-horizon-is-exposing-what-insurance-companies-really-pay-with-greg-williams
Audio file: https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/7b85b8b9-e12c-419f-86e6-b1da2ff0426b/ep_62_final_01.mp3?dest-id=5072550
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Duration seconds: 2632

## Resource

What if the biggest lever for fixing addiction treatment reimbursement wasn't a new law, but a file most people are too afraid to open? This episode, recorded at NAATP Nationals 2026, features Greg Williams of Third Horizon, a health policy consultant, data strategist, and person in long-term recovery whose own insurance denial as a teenager set him on a career-long mission to fix how behavioral health is paid for. Greg joins hosts Mark Scrivner and Jeff Skillen to unpack how payer machine-readable files are exposing massive reimbursement gaps between mental health and physical health providers, why patient steerage and the No Surprises Act are reshaping the in-network conversation, and how value-based care is finally moving from theory to practice in addiction treatment. Behavioral health leaders will walk away with a clearer picture of where reimbursement is headed, and how to position their organizations before the market gets there first. Key Moments 03:17 – Greg's personal recovery story and the insurance denial that shaped his career 06:28 – The origin of the 2008 Mental Health Parity and Addiction Equity Act 09:32 – What payer machine-readable files are and why most providers have never opened one 21:52 – Greg's "Kayak for healthcare" vision — shopping for treatment based on value 27:04 – Breaking down the four tiers of value-based care in behavioral health 30:41 – Launching the National Mental Health Parity Index with the Kennedy Forum, AMA, and APA 38:57 – How the No Surprises Act and good faith estimates are shifting patient behavior 41:50 – Why the future of treatment means following patients for 5+ years, not 28 days Learn More & Connect Show Notes + Resources: https://snapshotinteractive.com/mastermined Connect with Greg Williams: https://www.linkedin.com/…

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