# Ep 393 - Money Manager Capitalism: Ponzi Finance in the Shadows with Eric Tymoigne

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/macro-n-cheese-703488/ep-393-money-manager-capitalism-ponzi-finance-in-the-shadows-with-eric-tymoigne
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/macro-n-cheese-703488/ep-393-money-manager-capitalism-ponzi-finance-in-the-shadows-with-eric-tymoigne.md
Podcast: [Macro N Cheese](https://stenobird.com/podcast/macro-n-cheese-703488)
Published: 2026-08-22T11:30:00+00:00
Episode link: https://macroncheese.captivate.fm/episode/ep-393-eric-tymoigne
Audio file: https://episodes.captivate.fm/episode/7a36cceb-67ad-4051-9e10-c64171690c50.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/macro-n-cheese-703488/episodes/ep-393-money-manager-capitalism-ponzi-finance-in-the-shadows-with-eric-tymoigne
Duration seconds: 3877

## Resource

**Join us on Tuesday to discuss this episode in our online gathering, Macro 'n Chill. August 25, 8pm ET / 5pm PT. Register here: https://us06web.zoom.us/meeting/register/NGxWl6qMTaKXPhR51uHkwA If public power repeatedly stands behind private finance when it fails, shouldn't that same power be directed toward employment, productive capacity, and human need? So why isn't it? Economist Eric Tymoigne returns to the podcast to examine the rapid growth of private credit and private equity through Hyman Minsky’s theory of money manager capitalism. Eric argues that the expansion of payment-in-kind interest, securitization, layered leverage, and dependence on rising asset prices are signs that Ponzi finance is becoming increasingly embedded in private markets, making the financial system more fragile. He warns that efforts to “democratize” these markets by opening them to ordinary savers will broaden the pool of investors available to absorb risks and losses (which should really be borne by the wealthy.) The conversation then moves from financial instability to political economy. Through an MMT lens, Eric explains the enormous potential capacity of a currency-issuing government to contain financial crises, sustain incomes, and direct investment toward public purposes. Again we must ask why it doesn't happen. This raises the deeper question of whose purposes the state serves. Steve and Eric discuss public investment, community banking, the federal job guarantee, the influence of wealth on political decision-making, and the limits of electoral democracy in a capitalist system. Eric Tymoigne is an Associate Professor of Economics at Lewis & Clark College, Portland, Oregon; and Research Associate at the Levy Economics Institute of Bard College. His areas of teaching and researc…

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## Transcript

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