# Dan Awrey on the Future of the U.S. Payments System in a Digital World

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Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/macro-musings-with-david-beckworth-574582/dan-awrey-on-the-future-of-the-u-s-payments-system-in-a-digital-world.md
Podcast: [Macro Musings with David Beckworth](https://stenobird.com/podcast/macro-musings-with-david-beckworth-574582)
Published: 2026-02-09T10:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://macromusings.libsyn.com/dan-awrey-on-the-future-of-the-us-payments-system-in-a-digital-world
Audio file: https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/macromusings/MM-529-DanAwrey-Audio-Final.mp3?dest-id=865793
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Duration seconds: 3392

## Resource

Dan Awrey is a professor of Law at Cornell University and the author of the new book Beyond Banks: Technology, Regulation, and the Future of Money. Dan returns to the show to discuss his new book, the shadow monetary system, the case for markets to correct this problem, Gresham's new law, his proposals for fixing the payments system, and much more. Check out the transcript for this week's episode, now with links. Recorded on January 13th, 2025 Subscribe to David's Substack: Macroeconomic Policy Nexus Follow David Beckworth on X: @DavidBeckworth Follow Dan Awrey on X: @DanAwrey Follow the show on X: @Macro_Musings Check out our Macro Musings merch! Subscribe to David's new BTS YouTube Channel Timestamps 00:00:00 - Intro 00:01:16 - Beyond Banks 00:16:04 - Shadow Monetary System 00:26:07 - Can't Markets Solve Payment Problems? 00:28:16 - Gresham's New Law 00:40:27 - Dan's Proposal for Money and Payments 00:55:51 - Outro

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## Transcript

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