# Sakana AI - Chris Lu, Robert Tjarko Lange, Cong Lu

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/machine-learning-street-talk/sakana-ai-chris-lu-robert-tjarko-lange-cong-lu
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/machine-learning-street-talk/sakana-ai-chris-lu-robert-tjarko-lange-cong-lu.md
Podcast: [Machine Learning Street Talk (MLST)](https://stenobird.com/podcast/machine-learning-street-talk)
Published: 2025-03-01T18:40:22+00:00
Episode link: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/machinelearningstreettalk/episodes/Sakana-AI---Chris-Lu--Robert-Tjarko-Lange--Cong-Lu-e2vih1p
Audio file: https://anchor.fm/s/1e4a0eac/podcast/play/99222009/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2025-2-1%2F69665050-bc4f-a25b-5de2-11f53c0f4735.mp3
Processing state: processed
JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/machine-learning-street-talk/episodes/sakana-ai-chris-lu-robert-tjarko-lange-cong-lu
Duration seconds: 5874

## Resource

We speak with Sakana AI, who are building nature-inspired methods that could fundamentally transform how we develop AI systems. The guests include Chris Lu, a researcher who recently completed his DPhil at Oxford University under Prof. Jakob Foerster's supervision, where he focused on meta-learning and multi-agent systems. Chris is the first author of the DiscoPOP paper, which demonstrates how language models can discover and design better training algorithms. Also joining is Robert Tjarko Lange, a founding member of Sakana AI who specializes in evolutionary algorithms and large language models. Robert leads research at the intersection of evolutionary computation and foundation models, and is completing his PhD at TU Berlin on evolutionary meta-learning. The discussion also features Cong Lu, currently a Research Scientist at Google DeepMind's Open-Endedness team, who previously helped develop The AI Scientist and Intelligent Go-Explore. SPONSOR MESSAGES: *** CentML offers competitive pricing for GenAI model deployment, with flexible options to suit a wide range of models, from small to large-scale deployments. Check out their super fast DeepSeek R1 hosting! https://centml.ai/pricing/ Tufa AI Labs is a brand new research lab in Zurich started by Benjamin Crouzier focussed on o-series style reasoning and AGI. They are hiring a Chief Engineer and ML engineers. Events in Zurich. Goto https://tufalabs.ai/ *** * DiscoPOP - A framework where language models discover their own optimization algorithms * EvoLLM - Using language models as evolution strategies for optimization The AI Scientist - A fully automated system that conducts scientific research end-to-end * Neural Attention Memory Models (NAMMs) - Evolved memory systems that make transformers both faster and more accurat…

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