# Clinical Innovation in KAP: Changing the Story, Depathologizing Suffering, & Moving Beyond the DSM

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/living-medicine-7074573/clinical-innovation-in-kap-changing-the-story-depathologizing-suffering-moving-beyond-the-dsm
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/living-medicine-7074573/clinical-innovation-in-kap-changing-the-story-depathologizing-suffering-moving-beyond-the-dsm.md
Podcast: [Living Medicine](https://stenobird.com/podcast/living-medicine-7074573)
Published: 2025-05-22T06:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://485c1e09-45d8-4663-b442-542948ad8f19.libsyn.com/clinical-innovation-in-kap-changing-the-story-depathologizing-suffering-moving-beyond-the-dsm
Audio file: https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/485c1e09-45d8-4663-b442-542948ad8f19/Living_Medicine_-_Jayne_Gumpel_LCSW.mp3?dest-id=4724072
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/living-medicine-7074573/episodes/clinical-innovation-in-kap-changing-the-story-depathologizing-suffering-moving-beyond-the-dsm
Duration seconds: 2807

## Resource

Jayne Gumpel, LCSW, is the Founder and Lead Facilitator of Relationship Resources, which offers psychedelic-assisted retreats. As a psychotherapist, trainer, and teacher, she has over 30 years of experience working with couples, individuals, and groups in private practice. Jayne is a certified trainer in Psychedelic Integration Psychotherapy, a member of the Woodstock Therapy Center's Ketamine-Assisted Psychotherapy (KAP) team, and has completed MDMA-assisted psychotherapy training through the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS). In this episode… Couples may encounter challenges when trying to resolve persistent issues around communication, trust, or emotional pain. Traditional talk therapy sometimes falls short when couples try to break through entrenched narratives and create meaningful change. How can therapists help partners reach deeper understanding and healing in a safe, transformative way? According to psychedelic-assisted psychotherapist and couples retreat facilitator Jayne Gumpel, ketamine can act as a portal to emotional clarity and reconnection. Having facilitated both individual and group ketamine sessions, Jayne emphasizes the importance of preparation, intention setting, and integration. This medicine quiets the brain's default mode of thinking, helping clients detach from rigid meaning-making and approach difficult emotions with compassion. Jayne also integrates poetry into her clinical practice to help clients reframe their stories and deepen relational insight. In this week's episode of Living Medicine, Dr. Sandy Newes sits down with Jayne Gumpel, LCSW, Founder and Lead Facilitator of Relationship Resources, to discuss psychedelic-assisted couples therapy. Jayne shares her philosophy for cultivating joy, her innovative retrea…

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## Transcript

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