# How to measure AI developer productivity in 2025 | Nicole Forsgren

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/lenny-s-podcast/how-to-measure-ai-developer-productivity-in-2025-nicole-forsgren
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/lenny-s-podcast/how-to-measure-ai-developer-productivity-in-2025-nicole-forsgren.md
Podcast: [Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth](https://stenobird.com/podcast/lenny-s-podcast)
Published: 2025-10-19T11:02:51+00:00
Episode link: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-measure-ai-developer-productivity
Audio file: https://pscrb.fm/rss/p/api.substack.com/feed/podcast/175998086/98e4383560cb788fb2e142ca5f575146.mp3
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Duration seconds: 4068

## Resource

Nicole Forsgren created the most widely used frameworks for measuring developer productivity—DORA and SPACE. She wrote the foundational book Accelerate and is about to release her newest book, Frictionless , a practical guide for helping teams move faster in the AI era. She’s currently Senior Director of Developer Intelligence at Google. We discuss: 1. Why most productivity metrics are a lie 2. Signs that your engineering team could be moving much faster 3. Why AI accelerates coding but developers aren’t speeding up as much as you think 4. AI’s impact on engineers getting into “flow” 5. Her framework for building and scaling a developer experience team 6. The three components of developer experience: flow state, cognitive load, and feedback loops — Brought to you by: Mercury —The art of simplified finances: https://mercury.com/ WorkOS —Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs: https://workos.com/lenny Coda —The all-in-one collaborative workspace: https://coda.io/lenny — Where to find Nicole Forsgren: • Twitter: https://twitter.com/nicolefv • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolefv/ • Website: https://nicolefv.com/ — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Introduction to Nicole Forsgren (05:09) The concept of developer experience (DevEx) (08:33) Flow state and cognitive load in the age of AI (12:02) Challenges in measuring productivity with AI (21:19) The importance of developer experience for business value (22:20) Common issues and solutions in developer experience (26:49) Signs your eng team is moving too slow (29:52) How AI is improving productivity (33:32) Real examples of producti…

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