# S4E4: Criminalized Survival: Justine van der Leun on Abuse, Imprisonment, and Unreasonable Women

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/just-justice-7032206/s4e4-criminalized-survival-justine-van-der-leun-on-abuse-imprisonment-and-unreasonable-women
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/just-justice-7032206/s4e4-criminalized-survival-justine-van-der-leun-on-abuse-imprisonment-and-unreasonable-women.md
Podcast: [Just Justice](https://stenobird.com/podcast/just-justice-7032206)
Published: 2026-06-23T07:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://jessicahenryjustice.podbean.com/e/criminalized-survival-justine-van-der-leun-on-abuse-imprisonment-and-unreasonable-women/
Audio file: https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/js4j2sztskphw86a/Justine_Van_Der_Leun_FINAL_EDIT_6-22-26-001-esv2-100p-bg-m-music-100p8ax58.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/just-justice-7032206/episodes/s4e4-criminalized-survival-justine-van-der-leun-on-abuse-imprisonment-and-unreasonable-women
Duration seconds: 2772

## Resource

What happens when a woman’s survival is treated as a crime? In this episode of Just Justice, Jessica Henry speaks with award-winning journalist Justine van der Leun about her new book, Unreasonable Women: Three Stories of Violence, Imprisonment, and Extraordinary Survival. Drawing on seven years of reporting and more than 1,000 accounts from incarcerated women, van der Leun examines how the criminal legal system responds when women commit acts of violence against those who harmed them in order to survive. Together, they discuss criminalized survival, the limits of self-defense law, trauma, punishment, and the stories that are too often missing from public conversations about women convicted of homicide. This episode includes discussion of physical and sexual violence. For more about Justine van der Leun and to purchase her new book, Unreasonable Women, go to https://www.justinevdl.com/. For more about Jessica Henry, go to https://jessicahenryjustice.com/ or join her on Substack at https://jessicahenryjustice.substack.com/. Production Editor: Kaz Araki

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## Transcript

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