# Ep 151: The Myth of Michael Milken with Richard Sandler

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/joe-lonsdale-american-optimist-7465017/ep-151-the-myth-of-michael-milken-with-richard-sandler
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/joe-lonsdale-american-optimist-7465017/ep-151-the-myth-of-michael-milken-with-richard-sandler.md
Podcast: [Joe Lonsdale: American Optimist](https://stenobird.com/podcast/joe-lonsdale-american-optimist-7465017)
Published: 2026-04-24T18:29:00+00:00
Episode link: https://blog.joelonsdale.com/p/ep-151-the-myth-of-michael-milken
Audio file: https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/195376649/f7fb46342dc928b5a0885a6816aca217.mp3
Processing state: not_requested
JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/joe-lonsdale-american-optimist-7465017/episodes/ep-151-the-myth-of-michael-milken-with-richard-sandler
Duration seconds: 2477

## Resource

Michael Milken revolutionized American finance and democratized access to capital for thousands of companies that Wall Street had previously written off. Yet he was unjustly attacked in the 1980s in one of the most controversial prosecutions in U.S. history. As one of Michael’s key defense lawyers, Richard Sandler sets the record straight in his new book: Witness to a Prosecution: The Myth of Michael Milken . How did Michael transform capital markets through high-yield bonds? Why was he unfairly targeted? Why did he ultimately agree to a plea deal? And what are the lessons about government power that everyone should learn? We dive into these topics in this week’s episode with Richard Sandler, Partner at the law firm of Maron & Sandler and Executive Vice President and Trustee of the Milken Family Foundation. Richard and Lowell Milken, Michael’s younger brother, met in first grade while growing up in Los Angeles. After practicing law with his father, Richard joined Michael and Lowell’s firm -- Drexel Burnham Lambert -- to help the high-yield bond team. He saw firsthand the entire saga: the explosive rise and fall of Drexel, the unprecedented investigation, and ultimately, President Trump’s pardon of Michael in 2020. We begin with Michael’s breakthrough in high-yield bonds. Learn how he almost single-handedly transformed the “junk bond” market from $70 billion to $700 billion in a decade, and helped finance the growth of great American entrepreneurs and companies — Ted Turner, Steve Wynn, MCI Communications, among others. Next, Richard walks us through the investigation: the unprecedented use of RICO against Drexel, the targeting of Lowell as a “hostage,” and the novel charges Michael ultimately pled to (none of which had been prosecuted before or since). Finally, we expl…

## Actions

- request_transcript: `POST https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/joe-lonsdale-american-optimist-7465017/episodes/ep-151-the-myth-of-michael-milken-with-richard-sandler/transcription-requests` — Idempotently request low-priority transcript generation for this episode.
- read_markdown: `GET https://stenobird.com/podcast/joe-lonsdale-american-optimist-7465017/ep-151-the-myth-of-michael-milken-with-richard-sandler.md` — Read the agent-friendly Markdown representation of this episode resource.

A page view does not enqueue transcription. Agents should invoke `request_transcript` explicitly when they need this episode processed.

## Transcript

Full transcripts are not published on public pages unless there is a clear rights basis.