# »Wenn Menschen sich dem Krieg verweigern, dann werden Kriege unmöglich« – Interview mit Özlem Demirel

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/jacobin-podcast-6754014/wenn-menschen-sich-dem-krieg-verweigern-dann-werden-kriege-unm-glich-interview-mit-zlem-demirel
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/jacobin-podcast-6754014/wenn-menschen-sich-dem-krieg-verweigern-dann-werden-kriege-unm-glich-interview-mit-zlem-demirel.md
Podcast: [JACOBIN Podcast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/jacobin-podcast-6754014)
Published: 2026-05-08T05:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://jacobinpodcast.podigee.io/750-wenn-menschen-sich-dem-krieg-verweigern-dann-werden-kriege-unmoglich-interview-mit-ozlem-demirel
Audio file: https://audio.podigee-cdn.net/2483062-m-a7706f60db116221ac32d6c52aca7832.mp3?source=feed
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/jacobin-podcast-6754014/episodes/wenn-menschen-sich-dem-krieg-verweigern-dann-werden-kriege-unm-glich-interview-mit-zlem-demirel
Duration seconds: 1434

## Resource

Özlem Demirel argues that the Linke party must bridge the gap between anti-militarism and class politics to prevent social erosion. She advocates for mobilizing the working class against the rising costs of military expansion and the threat of nationalist populism.

## Highlights
- Main idea: Military expansion, such as the procurement of naval frigates, directly threatens social welfare and housing stability
- Failure mode: The rise of right-wing populism is driven by political resignation and the failure of mainstream parties to address economic interests
- Practical takeaway: Leftist organizing must move beyond academic circles and embed itself directly within industrial workplaces
- Main idea: True internationalism requires building connections with progressive movements in the US, China, and the Middle East to oppose imperialist trends
- Strategic goal: Preventing global conflict depends on the ability of populations to actively refuse and obstruct the machinery of war

## Topics

Linke Party, Anti-militarism, Class Politics, Military Spending, European Union, Labor Organizing, Internationalism, Social Welfare

## Chapters
- 1:00 — The Linke's Identity Crisis: An analysis of the party's struggle to balance opposition politics with its role in foreign policy debates.
- 2:40 — The Cost of Rearmament: Demirel explains her candidacy and the direct link between military spending and the dismantling of social achievements.
- 4:40 — Personal Politics and Identity: A discussion on the impact of migration, racism, and personal history on political perspective.
- 6:20 — The Challenge of Anti-Militarism: Addressing why the party struggles to project its anti-imperialist and anti-militarist positions externally.
- 8:10 — Mobilizing Against Social Cuts: The necessity of highlighting the connection between defense budgets and the erosion of the welfare state.
- 9:50 — Organizing the Working Class: Moving away from 'salon socialism' toward active presence and structural organization within companies.
- 11:40 — Countering Right-Wing Populism: How to combat nationalist narratives and the AfD's growing influence in labor sectors.

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## Transcript

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