# Want to Keep Fighting? Stay Optimistic — ACLU's Anthony Romero

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/is-this-working-7581836/want-to-keep-fighting-stay-optimistic-aclu-s-anthony-romero
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/is-this-working-7581836/want-to-keep-fighting-stay-optimistic-aclu-s-anthony-romero.md
Podcast: [Is This Working?!](https://stenobird.com/podcast/is-this-working-7581836)
Published: 2025-12-03T21:57:00+00:00
Episode link: https://episode.flightcast.com/01KAXE5SKRNKT8S9QSVCB670A3.mp3
Audio file: https://episode.flightcast.com/01KAXE5SKRNKT8S9QSVCB670A3.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/is-this-working-7581836/episodes/want-to-keep-fighting-stay-optimistic-aclu-s-anthony-romero
Duration seconds: 2035

## Resource

Anthony Romero has led the ACLU for nearly a quarter century—through four presidents, constitutional showdowns, and a political landscape that feels more chaotic every day. And yet, when you sit across from him, you don’t feel panic. You feel steadiness. Clarity. A kind of grounded purpose that’s rare in work shaped by crisis. In this conversation, recorded inside ACLU headquarters in New York, Romero and Connor talk about what it means to do work that is forged in conflict while still protecting your humanity. Anthony shares how he stays centered amid tragedy and noise, why “slowing things down” can be a form of progress, and how small daily practices—kindness, discipline, honest self-reflection—are what keep him from burning out. We also zoom out: What does leadership look like when the stakes feel impossibly high? What happens when your work requires you to step into friction again and again? And what responsibility does our generation have for the systems—and the workplace cultures—we’re leaving behind? For anyone who cares about doing meaningful work without losing themselves in the process, this conversation offers a rare mix of realism, agency, and genuine optimism. CHAPTERS Chapters 00:00:00 Intro — Fighting for democracy in a constitutional crisis 00:02:57 Constitutional crisis or opportunity for resistance? 00:04:14 Leading through tragedy and staying centered 00:07:07 Winning by losing — ACLU's litigation strategy 00:10:43 Redefining success and bringing the public along 00:12:20 The but-for test — Would America be worse without the ACLU? 00:16:53 Best case, worst case — America's future scenarios 00:20:48 Looking at the map — Opportunities in every state 00:23:01 The last man standing — Embracing friction 00:27:01 This is a rental car — Legacy and successio…

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