# A Defense of U.S. Intervention in Venezuela

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/interesting-times-with-ross-douthat-440457/a-defense-of-u-s-intervention-in-venezuela
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/interesting-times-with-ross-douthat-440457/a-defense-of-u-s-intervention-in-venezuela.md
Podcast: [Interesting Times with Ross Douthat](https://stenobird.com/podcast/interesting-times-with-ross-douthat-440457)
Published: 2026-01-07T10:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/07/opinion/interesting-times-elliott-abrams.html
Audio file: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/pfx.vpixl.com/6qj4J/nyt.simplecastaudio.com/1fe58c15-392f-4bd2-9c69-5e2935220d3c/episodes/417db14b-4bde-471b-97e4-4aef1cca688a/audio/128/default.mp3?aid=rss_feed&awCollectionId=1fe58c15-392f-4bd2-9c69-5e2935220d3c&awEpisodeId=417db14b-4bde-471b-97e4-4aef1cca688a&feed=2xzUiHxw
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/interesting-times-with-ross-douthat-440457/episodes/a-defense-of-u-s-intervention-in-venezuela
Duration seconds: 3214

## Resource

What should the U.S. do next in Venezuela? President Trump’s former Venezuela envoy Elliott Abrams wants the Trump administration to push harder for full regime change. But, he and Ross debate if a democratic transition is even possible based on the administration’s interests and past American efforts in the region.

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## Transcript

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