# Trump Has Become the Establishment Trump Takes On the Indiana Primaries, Thomas Massie and Mark Kelly

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/independent-americans-with-paul-rieckhoff-981737/trump-has-become-the-establishment-trump-takes-on-the-indiana-primaries-thomas-massie-and-mark-kelly
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/independent-americans-with-paul-rieckhoff-981737/trump-has-become-the-establishment-trump-takes-on-the-indiana-primaries-thomas-massie-and-mark-kelly.md
Podcast: [Independent Americans with Paul Rieckhoff](https://stenobird.com/podcast/independent-americans-with-paul-rieckhoff-981737)
Published: 2026-05-11T10:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://bleav.com/shows/independent-americans-with-paul-rieckhoff/?post_type=gp_podcast_episode&p=539
Audio file: https://pdrl.fm/c39fb6/pscrb.fm/rss/p/mgln.ai/e/1385/injector.simplecastaudio.com/c67dcf2c-bdc6-42d2-91a1-db918b8e8626/episodes/1ca63a72-39e8-439f-89f1-85720f2a615c/audio/128/default.mp3?aid=rss_feed&awCollectionId=c67dcf2c-bdc6-42d2-91a1-db918b8e8626&awEpisodeId=1ca63a72-39e8-439f-89f1-85720f2a615c&feed=8GTvjwcf
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Duration seconds: 569

## Resource

Trump ran as the anti-establishment wrecking ball. Two years back in Washington, he is the establishment — and Indiana voters know it. In this episode, Paul Rieckhoff breaks down the first real battle in the war for the soul of the Republican Party: Trump-backed challengers eating incumbents in a state Mike Pence used to own, while libertarian-leaning Hoosiers tell canvassers they don't want Washington's thumb on the scale, no matter whose thumb it is. The bigger story sits just outside the frame: 40% of Indiana is independent, locked out of a closed primary, and that's where the real action is for 2026 and 2028.

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## Transcript

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