# From Meritocracy to Human Interdependence: Redefining the Purpose of Education w/ Yong Zhao

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/human-restoration-project-331008/from-meritocracy-to-human-interdependence-redefining-the-purpose-of-education-w-yong-zhao
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/human-restoration-project-331008/from-meritocracy-to-human-interdependence-redefining-the-purpose-of-education-w-yong-zhao.md
Podcast: [Human Restoration Project](https://stenobird.com/podcast/human-restoration-project-331008)
Published: 2026-02-07T12:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://zencastr.com/z/g-epjwda
Audio file: https://redirect.zencastr.com/r/episode/69863e91f38a022cf18a9186/size/60076922/audio-files/5c7838c8f83db700141c53b1/cf381cfb-b626-449a-9e3c-4c45bd0a2f9d.mp3
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Duration seconds: 2502

## Resource

In a 2021 interview, Michael Sandel, author of the book The Tyranny of Merit argues that if merit can be understood as competence, a good thing to be clear, "The principle of meritocracy, simply put, says that if chances are equal, the winners deserve their winnings." But as we grapple with meritocracy, or systems built around the idea that those who get ahead are deserving, he says, "What makes merit a kind of tyranny is the way it attributes deservingness to the successful." How are we supposed to understand the great problems of our time: United States' incredible wealth and income disparities, child poverty, life expectancy gaps, infant mortality, student debt, or even incarceration rates through a lens of meritocracy? Sandel offers, "To rethink meritocracy requires, among other things, rethinking the mission and purpose of higher education." But what about education inequality and the construction of affluent white suburban public schools as "Good Schools", where the social and economic advantages of their proximity to wealth compound upward into higher property taxes, more funding, smaller class sizes, more course offerings, higher test scores and higher graduation rates? And that's a lens my guest today, Yong Zhao, Distinguished Professor of Educational Leadership & Policy Studies & Educational Psychology at the University of Kansas, wants to expand into redefining the purpose of K-12 education more broadly, from meritocracy to human interdependence. He's co-authored an open-access piece for the ECNU Review of Education by that name that you can search yourself or find in the show notes, and it's the focus of our conversation today. "[Meritocracy's] focus on ranking individuals according to flawed metrics fosters unhealthy competition, overlooks diverse human ta…

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