# No Figma. No Jira. No docs. How Gusto built a new product line with Claude Code | Eddie Kim (CTO)

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/how-i-ai-7304222/no-figma-no-jira-no-docs-how-gusto-built-a-new-product-line-with-claude-code-eddie-kim-cto
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/how-i-ai-7304222/no-figma-no-jira-no-docs-how-gusto-built-a-new-product-line-with-claude-code-eddie-kim-cto.md
Podcast: [How I AI](https://stenobird.com/podcast/how-i-ai-7304222)
Published: 2026-06-29T11:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/pen-name/episodes/No-Figma--No-Jira--No-docs--How-Gusto-built-a-new-product-line-with-Claude-Code--Eddie-Kim-CTO-e3l9dkt
Audio file: https://anchor.fm/s/1035b1568/podcast/play/121992285/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2026-5-25%2F426845751-44100-2-9721922ac73d1.mp3
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Duration seconds: 3111

## Resource

Eddie Kim is the co-founder and CTO of the payroll and HR platform Gusto, which just crossed $1 billion in revenue and serves more than 500,000 small businesses. Recently he did something most CTOs don’t: he went back to writing code. With three other engineers and one designer, Eddie built Gusto Cofounder, a net-new AI product, from zero code to a tier-one launch in 10 weeks. He walks through how that team actually worked, why they threw out nearly every process, and how anyone can copy the approach. What you’ll learn: The trash-can method: how to write, review, and delete a full PR as a product decision instead of a planning doc The two-tool agent stack behind Gusto Cofounder The exact “perma-Zoom” setup that replaced standups, retros, and Slack threads for 10 weeks How a designer with no engineering background hit the 94th percentile for shipping code The eval-first workflow Eddie uses to fix real customer bugs with Claude Code How a non-technical leader can prototype an idea to win buy-in, then carry it all the way to production-quality code — Brought to you by: Magic Patterns —Prototypes that look like your product Jira Product Discovery —Prioritize with insights, build with confidence — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Intro: five people, 10 weeks (02:38) The origins of Cofounder (08:32) Inside the 10-week build process (12:50) Building with no PMs (14:38) The “trash can” method (17:15) The stack architecture (19:10) Shipping to production from day one (22:03) How a designer became a top engineer (29:05) Demo: Cofounder over text and Slack (31:45) Demo: running a real payroll (36:26) Live coding with evals in Claude Code (39:39) Recap: prototype, small team, permission (43:17) Lightning round (48:44) Where to find Eddie and Cofounder — Tools referenced: • Gusto…

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