# The MLK Monument Has No Jesus on It: Vincent Lloyd and Luke Bretherton on Secularism as Ideology Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/homebrewed-christianity-723917/the-mlk-monument-has-no-jesus-on-it-vincent-lloyd-and-luke-bretherton-on-secularism-as-ideology Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/homebrewed-christianity-723917/the-mlk-monument-has-no-jesus-on-it-vincent-lloyd-and-luke-bretherton-on-secularism-as-ideology.md Podcast: [Homebrewed Christianity](https://stenobird.com/podcast/homebrewed-christianity-723917) Published: 2026-07-24T08:48:00+00:00 Episode link: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/NAANT3252180888.mp3 Audio file: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/NAANT3252180888.mp3 Processing state: not_requested JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/homebrewed-christianity-723917/episodes/the-mlk-monument-has-no-jesus-on-it-vincent-lloyd-and-luke-bretherton-on-secularism-as-ideology Duration seconds: 5272 ## Resource Political theology is finally having its moment — every op-ed columnist reaching for Christian nationalism, every neoreactionary tech founder invoking the katechon, every mainline pastor watching JD Vance lecture the Pope about just war doctrine, every abolitionist community organizer working the intersection between the sacred and the political. And yet almost no one seems to know what political theology actually is. Luke Bretherton and Vincent Lloyd — two of the three co-authors of a genuinely important new Columbia University Press book, What Is Political Theology? — sat down with me to explain what they had done. The book itself models the thing it argues for: three scholars from three disciplines refusing to synthesize their differences and instead sitting inside the productive tension. In one hour we cover why the standard Carl Schmitt genealogy needs to be de-centered, what from above and from below are actually good for, why secularism is not a neutral space but an ideology, what Peter Thiel's Antichrist lectures accidentally reveal, why Richard Dawkins now identifies as a cultural Christian, and what the difference between apophatic and cataphatic is currently doing to Luke's and Vincent's friendship. Live disagreement, on tape. The nice version. You can watch the video on YouTube Dr. Luke Bretherton is Regius Professor of Moral and Pastoral Theology at the University of Oxford, one of the most senior chairs in British theology, appointed by the Crown. Previously, he was Robert E. Cushman Distinguished Professor of Moral and Political Theology at Duke Divinity School. An ordained Church of England priest. Dr. Vincent W. Lloyd is Professor of Theology and Religious Studies and Direc… ## Actions - request_transcript: `POST https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/homebrewed-christianity-723917/episodes/the-mlk-monument-has-no-jesus-on-it-vincent-lloyd-and-luke-bretherton-on-secularism-as-ideology/transcription-requests` — Idempotently request low-priority transcript generation for this episode. - read_markdown: `GET https://stenobird.com/podcast/homebrewed-christianity-723917/the-mlk-monument-has-no-jesus-on-it-vincent-lloyd-and-luke-bretherton-on-secularism-as-ideology.md` — Read the agent-friendly Markdown representation of this episode resource. A page view does not enqueue transcription. Agents should invoke `request_transcript` explicitly when they need this episode processed. ## Transcript Full transcripts are not published on public pages unless there is a clear rights basis.