# Nicholas Janni & Amy Elizabeth Fox: What Comes After Human-Centric Leadership Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/growth-hacking-culture-7025931/nicholas-janni-amy-elizabeth-fox-what-comes-after-human-centric-leadership Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/growth-hacking-culture-7025931/nicholas-janni-amy-elizabeth-fox-what-comes-after-human-centric-leadership.md Podcast: [Growth Hacking Culture](https://stenobird.com/podcast/growth-hacking-culture-7025931) Published: 2026-08-30T12:15:44+00:00 Episode link: https://podcast.ivanpalomino.net/e/nicholas-janni-and-amy-elizabeth-fox/ Audio file: https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/ab6suvrrz5utk5wv/Nicholas_Janni_and_Amy_Elizabeth_Fox642pi.mp3 Processing state: not_requested JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/growth-hacking-culture-7025931/episodes/nicholas-janni-amy-elizabeth-fox-what-comes-after-human-centric-leadership Duration seconds: 2460 ## Resource Nicholas Janni and Amy Elizabeth Fox, authors of Leading in Chaos, explain why human-centric leadership has hit its ceiling, and what comes next. For fifteen years, leadership development meant one thing: build emotional intelligence, train empathy, create psychological safety. It worked, until it didn't. Some of the most self-aware, emotionally intelligent leaders on the planet are still freezing under pressure, still overcorrecting in a crisis, still making the wrong call. Not because they lack empathy. Because empathy was never the missing piece. Nicholas Janni has spent over 25 years advising CEOs and senior leadership teams worldwide and teaching at top business schools, including IMD. His book Leader as Healer won UK Business Book of the Year. Amy Elizabeth Fox is Co-founder and CEO of Mobius Executive Leadership, and has spent two decades running trauma-informed, transformational leadership programs for Fortune 500 executives and professional services firms. Together they wrote Leading in Chaos, their account of what leadership requires in a world stuck in permanent crisis. šŸ“– About the book Leading in Chaos: Portals to a New Future argues that today's polycrisis, institutional fragility, and sustained uncertainty demand more than better tools or best practice. Janni and Fox call it next practice: a shift from control to coherence, from speed to presence, and from purely cognitive leadership to a wider, embodied intelligence. Drawing on decades of work with senior teams, the book blends vertical development and trauma-informed practice into a practical case for how leaders can regulate themselves well enough to lead clearly through chaos. In this conversation, Ivan Palomino asks them to define what actually comes after human-centric leadership: a deeper form of cā€¦ ## Actions - request_transcript: `POST https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/growth-hacking-culture-7025931/episodes/nicholas-janni-amy-elizabeth-fox-what-comes-after-human-centric-leadership/transcription-requests` ā€” Idempotently request low-priority transcript generation for this episode. - read_markdown: `GET https://stenobird.com/podcast/growth-hacking-culture-7025931/nicholas-janni-amy-elizabeth-fox-what-comes-after-human-centric-leadership.md` ā€” Read the agent-friendly Markdown representation of this episode resource. A page view does not enqueue transcription. Agents should invoke `request_transcript` explicitly when they need this episode processed. ## Transcript Full transcripts are not published on public pages unless there is a clear rights basis.