# What Keeps Us Up at Night: A Raw Roundtable on the Pressures of City Management | Ep.15

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/gov360-7306531/what-keeps-us-up-at-night-a-raw-roundtable-on-the-pressures-of-city-management-ep-15
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/gov360-7306531/what-keeps-us-up-at-night-a-raw-roundtable-on-the-pressures-of-city-management-ep-15.md
Podcast: [Gov360](https://stenobird.com/podcast/gov360-7306531)
Published: 2025-12-09T13:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://www.gov360podcast.com/e/what-keeps-us-up-at-night-a-raw-roundtable-on-the-pressures-of-city-management-ep15/
Audio file: https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/y2ds56jcjekafqr9/Gov360_Ep15_Toles_Hosts96ma6.mp3
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Duration seconds: 4208

## Resource

City and county managers carry an extraordinary weight—public pressure, political conflict, community expectations, nonstop crises, and the quiet fear of what could go wrong next. Most of that burden stays hidden from view. But not today. In this special episode of Gov360, we flip the mic. Guest host Sam Toles, Founder & CEO of CiviSocial, steps into the host chair and interviews four veteran public sector leaders—Amanda Mack, Michael Paulhus, and Gov360’s own Chris Mann—in one of the most candid roundtables ever recorded on this show. This is not a policy discussion — it’s an honest conversation about the emotional, relational, and ethical burdens of leadership in the council–manager form of government. You’ll hear the panel dive into: ✅ The constant fear of getting fired — and how that pressure affects decision-making ✅ How public expectations, media narratives, and the “fear of missing something” weigh on CAOs ✅ The emotional toll of dealing with challenging elected officials and high-stakes moments that stay with you ✅ The tug-of-war that comes from having experience as both an elected official and an administrator — and how that shapes expectations ✅ Why understanding the public’s perspective is essential to guiding and mentoring staff through difficult situations The group also shares powerful insights for leaders at every level: 1. Build strong relationships early — trust equity makes the hard moments survivable. 2. Stay grounded in your values — especially when fear starts driving choices. 3. Embrace vulnerability — acknowledging fear helps leaders refocus and make better decisions. 4. Understand the political-administrative divide — especially if you’ve served in both roles. 5. Support your peers — several panelists note that these pressures are universal…

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## Transcript

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