# How do you know if a spiritual experience is real?

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/gods-ghosts-ufos-7311055/how-do-you-know-if-a-spiritual-experience-is-real
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/gods-ghosts-ufos-7311055/how-do-you-know-if-a-spiritual-experience-is-real.md
Podcast: [Gods, Ghosts & UFOs](https://stenobird.com/podcast/gods-ghosts-ufos-7311055)
Published: 2026-04-18T09:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.megaphone.fm/PHTE9396063251.mp3?updated=1776467688
Audio file: https://pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.megaphone.fm/PHTE9396063251.mp3?updated=1776467688
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/gods-ghosts-ufos-7311055/episodes/how-do-you-know-if-a-spiritual-experience-is-real
Duration seconds: 3719

## Resource

Kelly Chase was a materialist and an atheist. Then on a random Saturday morning in August 2021, something reached into her mind and showed her what she’s come to refer to as The Good — coherence, beauty, truth — whatever it is that allows creation to exist. The experience completely changed her life. But here’s the problem: she also knows that whatever did this to her could also make her happy about it. And as someone who values her personal freedom more than almost anything, it’s frightening to suspect that something fundamentally rewired her without her consent. This is the epistemic paradox of gnosis, or, in other words, knowledge that is supposed to be self-authoritative, but that you still have to figure out how to test. How do you build a life on something you can’t prove? And if you can’t, what exactly are you supposed to build on instead? Highlights: Kelly Chase is the host of Inquiry (formerly Cosmos, formerly The UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast) — find her at kellychase.media Mal couldn’t make it, thanks to business travel and a conspiracy of misfortune “Semantic anarchy” — words don’t mean the same things across tribes anymore What turned Kelly into an experiencer: an out-of-body, out-of-time connection to a higher intelligence that changed everything she believes From lifelong materialist and atheist to a spiritual convert to The Good Plato’s Republic and the allegory of Er Experience without consent (does being happy about it make it ok?) Kelly’s precognitive dreams The IRVA conference in Mexico Precognitive dreams vs. regular dreams The epistemic paradox of gnosis The preface paradox, the lottery paradox, and the paradox of the knower The Mormon parallel: revelation is basically the Mormon word for gnosis, and discerning true revelation has been the church’s ongo…

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## Transcript

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