# Christianity Today’s CEO on Leadership: Don’t Chase Perfection

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/george-fox-talks-4342699/christianity-today-s-ceo-on-leadership-don-t-chase-perfection
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/george-fox-talks-4342699/christianity-today-s-ceo-on-leadership-don-t-chase-perfection.md
Podcast: [GEORGE FOX TALKS](https://stenobird.com/podcast/george-fox-talks-4342699)
Published: 2026-05-12T12:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://share.transistor.fm/s/92858bad
Audio file: https://media.transistor.fm/92858bad/0036f52b.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/george-fox-talks-4342699/episodes/christianity-today-s-ceo-on-leadership-don-t-chase-perfection
Duration seconds: 1920

## Resource

Modern leadership models tend to revolve around attaining power, loyalty, and even perfection. In today’s episode, author and Christianity Today CEO Nicole Massie Martin invites us to flip these values upside down. Drawing on Jesus’ ministry to provide a countercultural model for effective leadership, Nicole talks with Brian about the inevitability of pain in the leader’s journey, resisting the pressure to achieve perfection, and the nuances of navigating competition and partnership across the gender divide. Nicole Massie Martin is a leader, author, speaker, teacher, and CEO of Christianity Today. Check out her book, Nailing It: Why Successful Leadership Demands Suffering and Surrender: https://www.nicolemassiemartin.com/ Dr. Brian Doak is an Old Testament scholar and professor: https://www.georgefox.edu/academics/undergrad/departments/religion/faculty/doak.html If you enjoy listening to the George Fox Talks podcast and would like to watch, too, check out our channel on YouTube ! We also have a web page that features all of our podcasts, a sign-up for our weekly email update, and publications from the George Fox University community.

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## Transcript

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