# How to Avoid Two AI Catastrophes: Domination and Chaos (with Nora Ammann)

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/future-of-life-institute-podcast-1112471/how-to-avoid-two-ai-catastrophes-domination-and-chaos-with-nora-ammann
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/future-of-life-institute-podcast-1112471/how-to-avoid-two-ai-catastrophes-domination-and-chaos-with-nora-ammann.md
Podcast: [Future of Life Institute Podcast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/future-of-life-institute-podcast-1112471)
Published: 2026-01-07T10:55:21+00:00
Episode link: https://share.transistor.fm/s/d9cb81de
Audio file: https://media.transistor.fm/d9cb81de/78abb399.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/future-of-life-institute-podcast-1112471/episodes/how-to-avoid-two-ai-catastrophes-domination-and-chaos-with-nora-ammann
Duration seconds: 4801

## Resource

Nora Ammann is a technical specialist at the Advanced Research and Invention Agency in the UK. She joins the podcast to discuss how to steer a slow AI takeoff toward resilient and cooperative futures. We examine risks of rogue AI and runaway competition, and how scalable oversight, formal guarantees and secure code could support AI-enabled R&D and critical infrastructure. Nora also explains AI-supported bargaining and public goods for stability. LINKS: Nora Ammann site ARIA safeguarded AI program page AI Resilience official site Gradual Disempowerment website CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:00) Slow takeoff expectations (08:13) Domination versus chaos (17:18) Human-AI coalitions vision (28:14) Scaling oversight and agents (38:45) Formal specs and guarantees (51:10) Resilience in AI era (01:02:21) Defense-favored cyber systems (01:10:37) AI-enabled bargaining and trade PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

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