# 005. The Hidden Spiritual Cost of How We Work ft. Gary Hamel

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/formation-with-john-ortberg-7804940/005-the-hidden-spiritual-cost-of-how-we-work-ft-gary-hamel
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/formation-with-john-ortberg-7804940/005-the-hidden-spiritual-cost-of-how-we-work-ft-gary-hamel.md
Podcast: [Formation with John Ortberg](https://stenobird.com/podcast/formation-with-john-ortberg-7804940)
Published: 2026-06-10T15:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2608516/episodes/19325622-005-the-hidden-spiritual-cost-of-how-we-work-ft-gary-hamel.mp3
Audio file: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2608516/episodes/19325622-005-the-hidden-spiritual-cost-of-how-we-work-ft-gary-hamel.mp3
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Duration seconds: 5102

## Resource

What does it mean to treat people as ends in themselves rather than instruments to get things done? Gary Hamel joins John for a conversation about work, dignity, and the quiet crisis inside most organizations. One of the world's most influential business thinkers, Gary has spent decades asking why so few workplaces actually unleash the people inside them, and what it would look like if they did. This is a conversation about agency, meaning, and why the biblical vision of every human being mad...

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## Transcript

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