# 189. What's East of "the West" ? -- Anthony Kaldellis

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/everyday-anarchism-4260069/189-what-s-east-of-the-west-anthony-kaldellis
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/everyday-anarchism-4260069/189-what-s-east-of-the-west-anthony-kaldellis.md
Podcast: [Everyday Anarchism](https://stenobird.com/podcast/everyday-anarchism-4260069)
Published: 2026-05-20T10:15:00+00:00
Episode link: https://www.everydayanarchism.com/
Audio file: https://episodes.captivate.fm/episode/8cef79eb-8823-451a-8dcd-17148554d705.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/everyday-anarchism-4260069/episodes/189-what-s-east-of-the-west-anthony-kaldellis
Duration seconds: 3944

## Resource

Before it became west of Islam, or China, or "the Orient," "The West" was simply the Western Roman Empire, and what it was east of was the Eastern Roman Empire. But the westerners wanted to be the true inheritors of the classical tradition, so they renamed it "western civilization," and made up reasons why the Eastern Roman Empire was actually something exotic and foreign and decadent and queer. They called it Byzantium. That's the argument of Anthony Kaldellis' new book, Phantom Byzantium , and Anthony joins me to discuss those ideas and what they mean for our understanding of "the West" and the ideas about politics that European thinkers appropriate from Rome. You can also listen to Anthony's first appearance on the podcast: https://www.everydayanarchism.com/the-roman-empire-lasted-because-its-rulers-were-in-a-constant-state-of-terror-anthony-kaldellis/ Anthony has his own wonderful podcast, Byzantium and Friends. I highly recommend it! https://byzantiumandfriends.podbean.com/

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## Transcript

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