# DO 297: Mulberries in the Rain: Permaculture, Crisis, and Building Food Systems for the Future

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/doomer-optimism-4308274/do-297-mulberries-in-the-rain-permaculture-crisis-and-building-food-systems-for-the-future
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/doomer-optimism-4308274/do-297-mulberries-in-the-rain-permaculture-crisis-and-building-food-systems-for-the-future.md
Podcast: [Doomer Optimism](https://stenobird.com/podcast/doomer-optimism-4308274)
Published: 2026-02-03T18:10:51+00:00
Episode link: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/doomer-optimism/episodes/DO-297-Mulberries-in-the-Rain-Permaculture--Crisis--and-Building-Food-Systems-for-the-Future-e3ejd6s
Audio file: https://anchor.fm/s/68308b7c/podcast/play/114979484/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2026-1-3%2F490a2128-a26d-66e3-ebaf-55155741e295.m4a
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/doomer-optimism-4308274/episodes/do-297-mulberries-in-the-rain-permaculture-crisis-and-building-food-systems-for-the-future
Duration seconds: 4301

## Resource

How patient design and ideological diversity are reshaping food production Ashley sits down with Ryan Blosser and Trevor Piersol, co-founders of Shenandoah Permaculture Institute and authors of Mulberries in the Rain, to explore permaculture beyond the stereotype of backyard herb spirals. We discuss what sets permaculture apart from regenerative agriculture, the evolving demographics of people drawn to food production, and how ideological diversity from left-wing environmentalists to conservative land stewards strengthens the movement. We dive into the practicalities of perennial systems, why comfrey matters more than you might think, and the often-overlooked messiness of annual vegetable farming. Ryan and Trevor challenge permaculture dogma around native plants and invasive species, sharing our own experiences with bamboo and autumn olive. We also discuss Ryan's innovative farm-based education program that integrates Virginia's K-12 curriculum standards with food production and how it's showing promising results for student achievement while producing thousands of pounds of organic food for the community. As the discussion turns philosophical, we explore what "doomer optimism" really means: preparing for an uncertain future not out of fear, but because building local food systems, land relationships, and community resilience are inherently fulfilling. We examine land access challenges, the psychology of sustainable living, and why relationships, especially those forged across ideological lines, may be our most valuable resource as we face systemic change. Perfect for anyone interested in permaculture, regenerative agriculture, education, and building meaningful alternatives to industrial food systems. The Shenandoah Permaculture Institute teaches practical,…

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