# Special Episode: Interview with Surge Network

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/disarming-leviathan-podcast-6408736/special-episode-interview-with-surge-network
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/disarming-leviathan-podcast-6408736/special-episode-interview-with-surge-network.md
Podcast: [Disarming Leviathan Podcast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/disarming-leviathan-podcast-6408736)
Published: 2026-03-21T16:02:16+00:00
Episode link: https://disarmingleviathan.substack.com/p/special-episode-interview-with-surge
Audio file: https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/191680553/85d89059bd63192c41ceb6be5c652243.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/disarming-leviathan-podcast-6408736/episodes/special-episode-interview-with-surge-network
Duration seconds: 2528

## Resource

We are in between seasons of the Disarming Leviathan podcast (mainly so I can finish my Doctoral project at Fuller Seminary), but I wanted to post this episode I did with the Surge Network . My friend Aaron Dailey and I talk about a variety of things, including how we have seen pastoral ministry change in Phoenix over the last two decades. I share some of the lessons I’ve learned, the growing anxiety about affiliation among clergy, and why the hardest part of this job is the ghosts. You can also find the video here . Get full access to Disarming Leviathan at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe

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## Transcript

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