# 34: Ryo Lu - It's All the Same Thing

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/dialectic-7102680/34-ryo-lu-it-s-all-the-same-thing
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/dialectic-7102680/34-ryo-lu-it-s-all-the-same-thing.md
Podcast: [Dialectic](https://stenobird.com/podcast/dialectic-7102680)
Published: 2025-12-18T08:22:30+00:00
Episode link: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/ICDEI7774509766.mp3
Audio file: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/ICDEI7774509766.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/dialectic-7102680/episodes/34-ryo-lu-it-s-all-the-same-thing
Duration seconds: 7199

## Resource

All links and transcript at dialectic.fm/ryo-lu Ryo Lu (Website, X) is the head of Design at Cursor. Prior, he was a designer at Notion, Stripe, and Asana, working on some of the most influential software tools of the last decade. He is now focused on building the next generation of tools for making software. Our conversation is an extensive exploration of Ryo's design philosophy, which is anchored in his recurring mantra: "it's all the same thing." He sees the world as fundamentally modular, where simple rules and patterns endlessly recombine to create emergent complexity. For Ryo, design is consciously participating in this process: seeing through the surface to understand the underlying structure and rearranging it into new forms. This means constantly moving between simplicity and complexity, chaos and order, bare material and highest levels of abstraction. We discuss how his process has evolved with AI. In the past, designing in tools like Figma felt like painting; now, working in Cursor feels like sculpting clay or finding David in the marble. So much of his philosophy is about getting closer to the material—in this case, code—and letting it provide feedback. There is no better example of this than his personal project, ryOS, a nearly full-on operating system he built entirely in Cursor. It is soulful, deeply personalized, and the opposite of "AI slop." This is a philosophical discussion about designing things that feel "true" or even "inevitable," but it is also a practical one. We talk about balancing agility and quality, allowing for "slack" in systems, and how to create soulful things with AI. Ryo is a profound thinker, but he is also a prolific doer, and it is this marriage that makes him so effective. I hope you are inspired to get closer to your own materi…

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## Transcript

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