# Utah, Upward Mobility, and the Future of the American Dream | Justin Callais

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/defending-ideas-6476805/utah-upward-mobility-and-the-future-of-the-american-dream-justin-callais
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/defending-ideas-6476805/utah-upward-mobility-and-the-future-of-the-american-dream-justin-callais.md
Podcast: [Defending Ideas](https://stenobird.com/podcast/defending-ideas-6476805)
Published: 2026-02-03T12:50:07+00:00
Episode link: https://www.spreaker.com/episode/utah-upward-mobility-and-the-future-of-the-american-dream-justin-callais--69749226
Audio file: https://api.spreaker.com/download/episode/69749226/di_podcast_132.mp3
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Duration seconds: 2542

## Resource

A new national report ranks all 50 states on upward mobility — and Utah comes out on top. In this episode of Defending Ideas , Nic Dunn sits down with Archbridge Institute Chief Economist Justin Callais to unpack what upward mobility really looks like, why states play a decisive role, and what policymakers can learn from the states that are getting it right. Show Notes: Social Mobility in the 50 States: 2025 Edition To restore hope for families in poverty, let states lead on welfare reform Let states fix the welfare system that Washington broke Defending Ideas is a weekly podcast produced by Sutherland Institute. On this show, we are committed to renewing the principles of common sense conservatism, making you a better champion of sound ideas. Visit defendingideas.org.

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## Transcript

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