# If We Want Democracy to Survive, We Have to Understand This Distinction

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Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/defending-democracy-with-marc-elias-5919693/if-we-want-democracy-to-survive-we-have-to-understand-this-distinction.md
Podcast: [Defending Democracy with Marc Elias](https://stenobird.com/podcast/defending-democracy-with-marc-elias-5919693)
Published: 2026-07-30T17:43:45+00:00
Episode link: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/democracydocket/episodes/If-We-Want-Democracy-to-Survive--We-Have-to-Understand-This-Distinction-e3monoq
Audio file: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/APO2825901660.mp3
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Duration seconds: 1922

## Resource

If we want democracy to survive, here’s what we need to understand: Donald Trump is actually acting normal. Marc Elias, founder of Democracy Docket, explains the important distinction between abnormal and immoral, why the courts should do away with the presumption of regularity, and what Democrats need to do to create a better, moral “new normal.”

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## Transcript

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