# #374 How to Thrive in a World of Continuous Transformation | Phil Le Brun and Jana Werner, Executives in Residence at AWS

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Podcast: [DataFramed](https://stenobird.com/podcast/dataframed)
Published: 2026-08-24T09:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://www.datacamp.com/podcast
Audio file: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/cohst.app/pdcst/6G1A6D/episodes.captivate.fm/episode/0f3f14d4-f073-40b4-8764-dc4b8b1d428b.mp3
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Duration seconds: 2741

## Resource

Technology is now moving faster than the organizations trying to adopt it. A model can be tested in an afternoon, but the approval to test it can take half a year, and that gap is where most transformation budgets quietly disappear. The structures that made companies safe and predictable — layers of sign-off, centralized control, standardized processes — were built for a world where getting things wrong was expensive. That world is gone. So what actually has to change inside a company for AI to deliver value? Which habits are holding things up? And where do you start when everything needs fixing at once? Phil Le Brun is an Executive in Residence at AWS and previously spent over 25 years at McDonald's Corporation, where he was VP of Global Technology Development and International CIO. Jana Werner is an Executive in Residence at AWS, where she leads the Financial Services Practice in EMEA and advises Fortune 500 executive teams on transformation, having previously scaled a tech start-up to acquisition by HP, led digital transformation at Tesco Bank, and advised DHL on global change. Together they are the authors of The Octopus Organization: A Guide to Thriving in a World of Continuous Transformation (Harvard Business Review Press). In the episode, Richie, Phil and Jana explore why AI transformations stall, the Tin Man organization and its anti-patterns, the octopus as a model for adaptive companies, why AI adoption metrics mislead, being data informed rather than data driven, making fast reversible decisions, hiring and onboarding, embedding learning into daily work, and much more. Links Mentioned in the Show: • The Octopus Organization (book) • Through the Looking-Glass — Lewis Carroll (the Red Queen) • Goodhart's law • Annie Duke on "resulting" • Linda Hill, Harvard Bu…

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