# 'Incorruptible' Author Eric Ries on Making Money But Creating No Value

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/create-or-destroy-reimagining-marketing-with-seth-matlins-7854347/incorruptible-author-eric-ries-on-making-money-but-creating-no-value
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/create-or-destroy-reimagining-marketing-with-seth-matlins-7854347/incorruptible-author-eric-ries-on-making-money-but-creating-no-value.md
Podcast: [Create or Destroy: Reimagining Marketing with Seth Matlins](https://stenobird.com/podcast/create-or-destroy-reimagining-marketing-with-seth-matlins-7854347)
Published: 2026-09-15T10:09:00+00:00
Episode link: https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/mgln.ai/e/257/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.megaphone.fm/VMP7807988077.mp3
Audio file: https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/mgln.ai/e/257/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.megaphone.fm/VMP7807988077.mp3
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Duration seconds: 3610

## Resource

Entrepreneur and author Eric Ries wrote the seminal book "The Lean Startup" and spent years teaching founders how to build companies, before realizing he'd never taught them how to protect what they built. In an economy where profit and value are often conflated, too many companies allow what Eric refers to as “the ghost of the public markets” to sit in every strategy meeting, trading long-term customer trust for short-term stock price bumps. Seth and Eric dive into the themes of Eric's latest book, "Incorruptible," examining how shareholder primacy became an economic orthodoxy that can destroy enterprise value, how product quality can get sacrificed when quarterly targets drive strategy, and what exceptional companies like Costco understand about building a governance fortress that protects sustainable growth. Create or Destroy: Reimagining Marketing with Seth Matlins is produced by The Wisdomous Company and the Vox Media Podcast Network. Follow the podcast on Instagram / TikTok @createordestroypod and on LinkedIn. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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## Transcript

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