# 312 - No Wellness Without Justice with Frank Gruba-McCallister

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/conversations-with-a-wounded-healer-682694/312-no-wellness-without-justice-with-frank-gruba-mccallister
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/conversations-with-a-wounded-healer-682694/312-no-wellness-without-justice-with-frank-gruba-mccallister.md
Podcast: [Conversations With a Wounded Healer](https://stenobird.com/podcast/conversations-with-a-wounded-healer-682694)
Published: 2026-03-25T07:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://headheartbiztherapy.com/podcast
Audio file: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/traffic.libsyn.com/secure/convoswithawoundedhealer/312_312_-_No_Wellness_Without_Justice_with_Frank_Gruba-McCallister.mp3?dest-id=671880
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/conversations-with-a-wounded-healer-682694/episodes/312-no-wellness-without-justice-with-frank-gruba-mccallister
Duration seconds: 3291

## Resource

Frank Gruba-McCallister on why therapy is political, compassion is nonnegotiable, and healing must include social change. If I had to choose one episode to light my way through the collapse of capitalism, it would be this conversation with Frank Gruba-McCallister. Truth is, there's no escaping the darkness of our current timeline. That said, there are dozens of reasons to remain hopeful, and thousands of people (like Frank) fanning the flames of optimism. There's also hella work to do individually and collectively. The end of capitalism will come whether we act or not. Frank offers several tips to therapists who want to operationalize hope and shape a more equitable future: Embody your values - "Not everyone who is awake stays awake." Our inner work is the journey, not the destination. Remain open or awake to new ways of thinking and be transparent about what has shifted for you. Make space for spiritual wisdom - "How can you be whole, which is what health is, by omitting what is the most essential aspect of who you are?" Don't mistake your antipathy for organized religion as rejection of your spiritual curiosity Mindfully engage with liberatory psychology - "We have to empower people to challenge economic and political systems. But that doesn't negate the importance of them doing work with respect to their own development and growth." Ditto for therapists! "There's a way of coming out of this that brings you to a better place," observes Frank. If he can remain hopeful, then so can you and I. Join our Authentic Leaders Group! Next cohort starts May 1, 2026. This is a journey of self-discovery and leadership mastery, where you'll not only enhance your leadership skills but also forge meaningful connections with fellow therapists who are committed to their own growth and…

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## Transcript

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