# The magic spell that makes banks give you your money back

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/complex-systems-with-patrick-mckenzie-patio11-6944962/the-magic-spell-that-makes-banks-give-you-your-money-back
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/complex-systems-with-patrick-mckenzie-patio11-6944962/the-magic-spell-that-makes-banks-give-you-your-money-back.md
Podcast: [Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie (patio11)](https://stenobird.com/podcast/complex-systems-with-patrick-mckenzie-patio11-6944962)
Published: 2026-01-08T08:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://www.complexsystemspodcast.com/the-magic-spell-reg-e/
Audio file: https://pscrb.fm/rss/p/prfx.byspotify.com/e/media.transistor.fm/31f15fb1/55fc5551.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/complex-systems-with-patrick-mckenzie-patio11-6944962/episodes/the-magic-spell-that-makes-banks-give-you-your-money-back
Duration seconds: 2238

## Resource

Patrick McKenzie (@patio11) reads his latest Bits about Money essay explaining why he “loves Regulation E more than any rational person does.” He explains how Reg E created a privately-administered legal system processing over 100 million complaints annually—dwarfing the formal U.S. court system—and why banks are now trying to avoid these obligations for Zelle's nine figure fraud problem. – Full transcript available here: www.complexsystemspodcast.com/the-magic-spell-reg-e/ – Sponsors: MongoDB & Framer Tired of database limitations and architectures that break when you scale? MongoDB is the database built for developers, by developers: ACID compliant, Enterprise-ready, and fluent in AI. Start building faster at mongodb.com/build Building and maintaining marketing websites shouldn’t slow down your engineers. Framer gives design and marketing teams an all-in-one platform to ship landing pages, microsites, or full site redesigns instantly—without engineering bottlenecks. Get 30% off Framer Pro at framer.com/complexsystems . – Links: Bits about Money, One Regulation E, Two Very Different Regimes Full version of "Doesn't Matter, That's Reg E": https://suno.com/song/173bbd67-92f7-4868-930f-efeca4b373c0 – Timestamps: (00:00) Introduction (02:46) These newfangled computers might steal our money (12:45) The contractual liability waterfall in card payments (20:35) Sponsors: MongoDB and Framer (22:23) The contractual liability waterfall in card payments (continued) (23:47) Enter Zelle (25:46) Zelle is an enormous fraud target (32:23) Banks may attempt to extend the Zelle precedent (35:02) Reg E encompasses almost every technology which exists and many which don't yet

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## Transcript

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