# APIs of evil: studying fraud as infrastructure

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/complex-systems-with-patrick-mckenzie-patio11-6944962/apis-of-evil-studying-fraud-as-infrastructure
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/complex-systems-with-patrick-mckenzie-patio11-6944962/apis-of-evil-studying-fraud-as-infrastructure.md
Podcast: [Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie (patio11)](https://stenobird.com/podcast/complex-systems-with-patrick-mckenzie-patio11-6944962)
Published: 2026-02-12T08:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://www.complexsystemspodcast.com/fraud-as-infrastructure/
Audio file: https://pscrb.fm/rss/p/prfx.byspotify.com/e/media.transistor.fm/58566867/e7bdd1b1.mp3
Processing state: not_requested
JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/complex-systems-with-patrick-mckenzie-patio11-6944962/episodes/apis-of-evil-studying-fraud-as-infrastructure
Duration seconds: 3081

## Resource

Patrick McKenzie (patio11) reads an essay about "industrial-scale" fraud and why it should be treated as a professional business process rather than a series of isolated accidents. He explains how fraudsters leverage specialized supply chains—shared CPAs, incorporation agents, and "least attentive" banks—to loot public funds. Patrick argues that the government’s "pay-and-chase" model is fundamentally broken and suggests that simple "proof of work" functions, like a 30-second cell phone video of a workspace, could provide the visceral signal that paperwork lacks, and examines the state’s lack of "object permanence" regarding serial fraudsters and how scaled data provides the defense-side advantage needed to catch modern frauds. – Full transcript available here: www.complexsystemspodcast.com/fraud-as-infrastructure/ – Presenting Sponsor: Mercury Complex Systems is presented by Mercury—radically better banking for founders. Mercury offers the best wire experience anywhere: fast, reliable, and free for domestic U.S. wires, so you can stay focused on growing your business. Apply online in minutes at mercury.com . Mercury is a fintech company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services provided through Choice Financial Group and Column N.A., Members FDIC. – Links: Bits about Money: https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/fraud-investigation/ Dan Davies on Complex Systems: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5QKxzgumJXSQuaWCmYAoM9 Jetson Leder-Luis on Complex Systems podcast: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3NiC7x9edoxJXkNW9vRfAT Stripe’s Emily Sands on Complex Systems: https://open.spotify.com/episode/64Dyh6Gbg1lg4qUFwId0hc – Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (05:23) In which we briefly return to Minnesota (09:26) Common signals, methods, and epiphenomena of fraud (09:30) Fraudsters ar…

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## Transcript

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