# Two-In/Two-Out: An Idea Whose Time Has Passed with Sean Duffy

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Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/code-3-the-firefighters-podcast-659415/two-in-two-out-an-idea-whose-time-has-passed-with-sean-duffy.md
Podcast: [Code 3 - The Firefighters Podcast](https://stenobird.com/podcast/code-3-the-firefighters-podcast-659415)
Published: 2024-06-06T11:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://code-3-firefighter-show.captivate.fm/episode/two-in-two-out-an-idea-whose-time-has-passed-with-sean-duffy
Audio file: https://podcasts.captivate.fm/media/a5847f76-0648-42c1-bdb4-3b044237eefd/Two-InTwo-Out-An-Idea-Whose-Time-Has-Passed-with-Sean-Duffy.mp3
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Duration seconds: 1486

## Resource

Firefighters around the country are looking at the possibility of a new OSHA ruling very carefully. I’m talking about the two-in/two-out rule, contained in NFPA 1500. There’s a new report written by five prominent members of the fire service that says two-in/two-out doesn’t make firefighters any safer. Instead, the time wasted waiting for a RIC crew to get ready makes it more likely that civilian victims will be killed. The report uses data from Project Mayday to support this claim. It points out that when firefighters die in the line of duty, it isn’t usually in a mayday situation. It also says that if a mayday is called, it’s more likely that another interior crew member will make the save. The rule is routinely circumvented by departments that need to get inside a building but don’t have enough people on the fireground to do it. An OSHA ruling would add some enforcement teeth to NFPA 1500. The report’s titled, “Removing Two-In/Two-Out: A Modern, Data-supported Defense of Our Core Mission." It was written by Bill Carey, Sean Duffy, Nick Ledin, Chris Thompson and Scott Thompson. Sean Duffy is acting as the PIO for the group and spoke to me about the report.

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