# What Comes After Human-Centred Design?

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/civic-punks-7565949/what-comes-after-human-centred-design
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/civic-punks-7565949/what-comes-after-human-centred-design.md
Podcast: [Civic Punks](https://stenobird.com/podcast/civic-punks-7565949)
Published: 2026-04-24T10:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://civicpunk.podbean.com/e/what-comes-after-human-centred-design/
Audio file: https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/veyyzgxftdjs42jn/riverside_03_21_2026_6_10_20_pm_a_apr_24_2026_001_drak_s_studioavrfo.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/civic-punks-7565949/episodes/what-comes-after-human-centred-design
Duration seconds: 2335

## Resource

Roger Watson has been one of the leading voices shaping the practice of design in government in Australia — as a practitioner, teacher, author, and long-time champion of better public services. I sat down with Roger in Sydney to talk about how he found his way into this work, the personal experiences that shaped his interest in government design, and why he believes the field needs to evolve. We also dig into the idea of Design Thinking 3 — what comes next after earlier waves of design practice — and some of the ideas behind his upcoming book, including the conditions needed to create truly innovative spaces: labs, temples, podiums, and academies. It is a thoughtful conversation about design, government, innovation, and the spaces we need to build if we want public institutions to think and act differently.

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## Transcript

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