# Challenger Cities EP79: The Best Practice Industrial Complex with Gerald Babel-Sutter

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Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/challenger-cities-6959558/challenger-cities-ep79-the-best-practice-industrial-complex-with-gerald-babel-sutter.md
Podcast: [Challenger Cities](https://stenobird.com/podcast/challenger-cities-6959558)
Published: 2026-05-05T15:55:51+00:00
Episode link: https://rss.com/podcasts/challengercitytoronto/2795892
Audio file: https://content.rss.com/episodes/278784/2795892/challengercitytoronto/2026_05_05_15_47_53_12fb8166-3ac5-4d95-bbaf-97032771f69a.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/challenger-cities-6959558/episodes/challenger-cities-ep79-the-best-practice-industrial-complex-with-gerald-babel-sutter
Duration seconds: 3227

## Resource

Gerald Babel-Sutter is the founder of Urban Future, a 14-year-old event that has grown from a workshop for ten city officials in Graz to a gathering of 2,000 people from 290 cities in 48 countries. The premise hasn't changed: get the actual project managers in a room, not the communications directors, and ask them to talk honestly about what went wrong. In this conversation we cover how a frustrated city official's complaint over a beer became the founding logic of one of Europe's most distinctive urbanism events, why Oslo's deputy mayor told a room full of city planners to never call anything a car-free city centre, what Helsingborg's annual fuck-up of the year award reveals about institutional culture change, and why Istanbul — four religions, sixteen million people, a more open visa regime — is where Urban Future is heading in April 2027. Gerald also makes a case that the knowledge flows in urbanism run almost entirely in the wrong direction, and that who gets a visa to attend whose conference is one of the most consequential questions in the field that nobody is talking about. https://urban-future.org/

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## Transcript

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