# Challenger Cities EP60: Designing Cities in Pencil, Not Pen with Jasmine Palardy (again)

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/challenger-cities-6959558/challenger-cities-ep60-designing-cities-in-pencil-not-pen-with-jasmine-palardy-again
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/challenger-cities-6959558/challenger-cities-ep60-designing-cities-in-pencil-not-pen-with-jasmine-palardy-again.md
Podcast: [Challenger Cities](https://stenobird.com/podcast/challenger-cities-6959558)
Published: 2026-01-19T20:04:38+00:00
Episode link: https://rss.com/podcasts/challengercitytoronto/2469881
Audio file: https://content.rss.com/episodes/278784/2469881/challengercitytoronto/2026_01_19_19_59_51_4284bdd4-3c8f-4685-a063-6e9a20284906.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/challenger-cities-6959558/episodes/challenger-cities-ep60-designing-cities-in-pencil-not-pen-with-jasmine-palardy-again
Duration seconds: 2994

## Resource

We reconnect with Jasmine Palardy almost eighteen months after our very first conversation to reflect on what has changed in how we think and talk about cities, and what hasn’t. Exploring why real progress in cities comes not from imposing control but from embracing uncertainty, loosening the grip of over-planning and letting “accidental urbanists” and informal city builders shape change on the ground. Jasmine reframes urbanism as a messy, lived practice rather than a rigid discipline, and highlights how everyday friction and irritation are often the beginning of meaningful change. This episode reframes control, imagination and experimentation in the design of cities.

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## Transcript

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