# The rise of permissionless DERs

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/catalyst-with-shayle-kann-4458041/the-rise-of-permissionless-ders
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/catalyst-with-shayle-kann-4458041/the-rise-of-permissionless-ders.md
Podcast: [Catalyst with Shayle Kann](https://stenobird.com/podcast/catalyst-with-shayle-kann-4458041)
Published: 2026-01-29T11:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/PSMI3430027549.mp3?updated=1769636493
Audio file: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/PSMI3430027549.mp3?updated=1769636493
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/catalyst-with-shayle-kann-4458041/episodes/the-rise-of-permissionless-ders
Duration seconds: 2151

## Resource

Distributed batteries are having a big moment. On one hand, companies like Base Power and Tesla have leaned into large residential batteries that export power back to the grid, but need permits and inspections to operate. At the same time, however, a new category has emerged: small, "plug-in" batteries that don’t require an electrician or complex installation, let alone a permit. In this episode, Shayle talks to James McGinniss, co-founder and CEO of David Energy (yes, the biblical reference is intentional). David Energy is deploying these nimble, permissionless systems today for both residential customers and small businesses, and James argues that this approach could usher in a new era of massive scale and affordability for distributed energy resources. Shayle and James cover topics like: Why James prefers the term "plug-in" over "permissionless," and what falls into this bucket, from balcony solar to battery-enabled appliances The murky regulatory landscape around micro-DERs How plug-in systems can effectively drive soft costs (permitting, labor, customer acquisition) down to nearly zero How high energy prices in Germany drove the adoption of 4 million plug-in systems in just a few years The appeal for small businesses: how shaving just a few kilowatts of peak demand can generate significant savings for commercial customers in markets like New York Future form factors, including batteries integrated directly into cooktops, heat pumps, and other household appliances Resources Catalyst: How Base Power plans to use its fresh $1B Catalyst: The new wave of DERs Catalyst: Is now the time for DERs to scale? Latitude Media: Can VPPs unlock grid capacity for data centers? Latitude Media: How do we turn small-scale, distributed energy into a multi-trillion dollar sector? Cred…

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## Transcript

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