# S2.E21: Marketing to Mind States, with Will Leach

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Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/bullhorns-and-bullseyes-6688432/s2-e21-marketing-to-mind-states-with-will-leach.md
Podcast: [Bullhorns and Bullseyes](https://stenobird.com/podcast/bullhorns-and-bullseyes-6688432)
Published: 2025-08-19T10:52:00+00:00
Episode link: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bullhorns-and-bullseyes/episodes/S2-E21-Marketing-to-Mind-States--with-Will-Leach-e36t3k4
Audio file: https://anchor.fm/s/e556de6c/podcast/play/106908740/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2025-7-15%2Fb081cbf5-02ab-08f2-082b-6d20ae0f0b95.mp3
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Duration seconds: 2563

## Resource

Tom and Curtis welcome Will Leach, best-selling author of Marketing to Mind States , to the show to explore the importance of understanding consumer behavior through the lens of behavioral psychology and neuroscience. Will discusses his Mind State Model, which emphasizes the significance of non-conscious factors in decision-making and how marketers can leverage this understanding to create more effective messaging. The conversation delves into the role of goals, motivations, and emotional connections in marketing, as well as the challenges of capturing and maintaining consumer attention in a saturated advertising landscape. The discussion also highlights the difference between brand attachment and brand loyalty, arguing that attachment creates a stronger connection with consumers. N.B.: Learn more and get the book Connect with Will on LinkedIn Takeaways: Understanding the non-conscious mind is crucial for effective marketing. The Mind State Model helps in crafting messages that resonate with consumers. Goals and motivations drive consumer behavior more than features. Behavioral economics provides insights into decision-making shortcuts. The reticular activating system filters out most marketing messages. Addressing pain points can bypass consumer filters and capture attention. Marketing should start with understanding the customer, not the product. Understanding psychological mind states is crucial for effective marketing. Resist “the AAA of temptation,” which is attribution, algorithms, and arithmetic. Marketers often optimize for metrics instead of human behavior. Brand attachment is stronger than brand loyalty. Temporal landmarks influence consumer behavior and decision-making.

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## Transcript

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