# Carney's Challenge: Can Europe Take the Reins of NATO?

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/brussels-sprouts-203831/carney-s-challenge-can-europe-take-the-reins-of-nato
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/brussels-sprouts-203831/carney-s-challenge-can-europe-take-the-reins-of-nato.md
Podcast: [Brussels Sprouts](https://stenobird.com/podcast/brussels-sprouts-203831)
Published: 2026-02-06T18:00:00+00:00
Episode link: https://brusselssprouts.podbean.com/e/the-carney-conundrum-can-middle-powers-take-the-reins-of-nato/
Audio file: https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/hm2j378su9c6zdup/BrusselsSproutsDaalderPosen.mp3
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JSON: https://stenobird.com/v1/public/podcasts/brussels-sprouts-203831/episodes/carney-s-challenge-can-europe-take-the-reins-of-nato
Duration seconds: 3648

## Resource

Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney made headlines at this year's World Economic Forum in Davos with his speech in which he declared that the international system is in the midst of a rupture—not a transition—and that middle powers must reduce their dependence on great powers such as the United States. Carney called for middle powers to diversify their partnerships and cooperate among themselves to hedge against rising uncertainty, and great powers' weaponization of interdependence. Carney asserted that the middle powers must act together because “if we're not at the table, we're on the menu.” Carney's speech was praised far and wide, with many crediting him for calling out what many have been feeling, especially in the last year under the Trump administration. What remains to be seen, however, is whether middle powers like Canada and its transatlantic partners will truly be able to form the new partnerships needed to reduce their dependence on the United States and navigate changing geopolitical realities. To help us find the answers to these questions and more, we're excited to welcome Barry Posen and Ivo Daalder to Brussels Sprouts. Barry Posen is professor of international relations at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and the former director of the MIT Security Studies Program. Ivo Daalder is a senior fellow at Harvard’s Belfer Center. He was previously the president of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs and the U.S. ambassador to NATO from 2009 to 2013.

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## Transcript

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