# Dr. Nassir Ghaemi on The Psychology of Great Leaders: The Creative Power of Mental Illness

Page: https://stenobird.com/podcast/book-club-with-michael-smerconish-4372437/dr-nassir-ghaemi-on-the-psychology-of-great-leaders-the-creative-power-of-mental-illness
Text version: https://stenobird.com/podcast/book-club-with-michael-smerconish-4372437/dr-nassir-ghaemi-on-the-psychology-of-great-leaders-the-creative-power-of-mental-illness.md
Podcast: [Book Club with Michael Smerconish](https://stenobird.com/podcast/book-club-with-michael-smerconish-4372437)
Published: 2026-05-11T18:57:19+00:00
Episode link: https://www.siriusxm.com
Audio file: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/sxm.simplecastaudio.com/e3dd7ada-28ed-4fb2-9a98-2aa2a4696c24/episodes/bfd58852-32c2-4e46-9c86-edebd098ea1d/audio/128/default.mp3?aid=rss_feed&awCollectionId=e3dd7ada-28ed-4fb2-9a98-2aa2a4696c24&awEpisodeId=bfd58852-32c2-4e46-9c86-edebd098ea1d&feed=Xjj1yH0V
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Duration seconds: 1470

## Resource

In this episode of Book Club with Michael Smerconish, Michael speaks with psychiatrist and author Dr. Nassir Ghaemi about the surprising connection between mental illness and exceptional leadership. Drawing from Dr. Ghaemi’s books "A First-Rate Madness" and the newly published "Soul on Fire", the conversation explores how figures like Winston Churchill, Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King Jr., and Ted Turner may have drawn strength from struggles with depression or bipolar disorder during times of crisis. It’s a thought-provoking discussion about stigma, creativity, resilience, and the misunderstood realities of mental health. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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## Transcript

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